Indiana’s recent law

I think the law was grotesquely stupid and likely a threat to far more than my gay friends but I also look forward to them suffering many unintended consequences.

UPDATE: A friend who had done more research felt that the above link was weak.  Here are others:


4 responses to “Indiana’s recent law”

  1. Lucius Svartwulf Helsen says :

    here’s my thing, and this is without knowing the wording of the law, but as a Pagan…I support the idea behind it.

    I do not believe that a person should be forced to violate their moral/religious convictions simply because someone else feels that they need to, in order to not discriminate, or to obey the law, or any number of reasons. Throughout the discussions of these “Religious Freedom” bills regardless of where they are taking place, there is one overwhelming thing that keeps popping up. That the religious do not have the right to live by their morals, they must subsume their morals for the convenience (because lets face it, this is about the convenience of obtaining goods, even if some Christians refused to serve LGBT or Other peoples, those peoples could still go elsewhere and get those same goods) of other people. Ultimately, what repeated seems like is that in order to avoid making say the LGBT community face “discrimination” that means that legally those who define themselves as religious people must be made literal second class citizens who must chose between following what they believe is right…or losing everything they have worked for.

    Which…seems wrong to me. I have to ignore my morals, my religious teachings, if someone finds it inconvenient that I do not want to perform or support an action I consider wrong, but that they either consider right, or at least consider it right to force me to do? In a metaphysical sense, I should risk my eternal place in the afterlife, lose one of honor for one of shame and punishment for violating the laws of my Gods, because someone feels they have the right to based on who they are presently engaged in sexual congress with? While this isn’t as major a problem for a Pagan like me as it might be for a Christian or Jew, that is a horribly selfish way of acting. How is that action any better than slavery? IF you force someone to do something against their will, that is slavery!

    And anyone who believes that they have the right to force someone to work for them, to provide them services, against that person’s will, is not someone we in society should respect. That person has gone from someone demanding equality to demanding supremacy, stating that their way is not only superior, but has the right to force others to live by its rules, regardless of others wishes. That is a major complaint listed against Christianity, religion, fascism, and totalitarianism, so why then would an unacceptable action suddenly become acceptable simply because it is used against the religious? Such would be as grave a violation of civil rights as what those who protest such bills claim this bill will be used for.

    • facingthefireswithin says :

      Because their side already has too much power and we live in a secular society to protect our minority position against their majority one.

      • Lucius Svartwulf Helsen says :

        So the answer to them “having too much power” is to ignore their own civil rights, doing so in a manor which then harms other minorities, and making a second class citizen of anyone who bases their life around their faith? I’m sorry, but that is the wrong way to go about achieving equality for minorities. By all means, do not allow them to make the laws which would ban behaviors they do not like…but do not ban their behaviors which you do not like, because then you are no better, and no different, than those whom you seek to limit?

        As you say, we live in a secular society, we do not permit them to force others to live by their morals based on their religious convictions, but the flip side of that is we cannot, should not, force them to live by other people’s morals that they do not agree with.

        And really, the only minorities being affected by these laws are those who base their lives around what are essentially “moral choices.” No one is going to be able to argue based on their religion that “i can’t serve this person because they are black, a man, a woman, etc.” All this really does is say that those who object to things like gay marriage, may not be forced to violate their morals for the sake of someone else’s morals. Those who protest the very idea of such laws, are basically saying over and over, that “my choice of who to fuck is more important than your choice to live a moral life.” Which opens up some very dark pathways.

        Equality cannot be obtained via oppression. It doesn’t matter if it is the majority or the minority. Our first amendment in america is “freedom of speech and belief.” You can say what you want, and believe what you want, but you cannot force your morals upon another. Christian and Gay are equal in this regard. Just as the Christan cannot force me to pray to Jesus, I too cannot force him to sacrifice to Odin. So why then is it suddenly acceptable to force a Christian (or any religious person) to essentially do that exact same thing?

  2. facingthefireswithin says :

    I am sorry, I do not agree. Hospitality and friendship point me in a different direction and I do not interpret events they way you are doing. Also, by pushing things in this direction, the Christians will ultimately do themselves more harm than good.

    I will defend my friends and the choices of future generations where I can.

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